Comments on: Students Get Another Chance with the Power of the I http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/ A Conversation Hosted by Newport News Public Schools Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:33:20 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: Mike http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-280 Mike Thu, 14 May 2009 13:35:14 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-280 I believe the entire problem with our system is it is based on "time". This time constraint then puts us, teachers and administrators, between a rock and a hard place regarding issuing student grades. The time one spends in a seat has nothing to do with what your brain learns. Student progress will be limited and few problems will be solved should we continue to treat all learning for all children the same. Many children need more time and many need less time to learn. When will we decide to switch to a knowledge based outcome that is not tied into a specific time-frame? We are educating our children in a system created in a different time and for a different purpose yet we now believe we are becoming 21st century educators...REALLY??? We need to teach our children how to access information in order to solve problems. How many of our students drop out because they are bored or just plain not interested in this or that subject matter? If a student can master a curriculum or skill-set in 9 weeks instead of 18 weeks why do we not allow that? Does it truly take all students four years to complete 22 high school credits? On the other hand it can take a student four and a half years to do so; however, then he/she does not count towards a cohort group which the penalizes the school. How ludicrous! How and why do we as educators allow non-educators (politicians) to dictate this type of policy to us? When will we take a stand and simply focus on the individual child and base his/her success on acquiring knowledge even if it takes a little more time. I believe if the 'system' was changed many educators would have less of a problem issuing any grades, including I's I believe the entire problem with our system is it is based on “time”. This time constraint then puts us, teachers and administrators, between a rock and a hard place regarding issuing student grades. The time one spends in a seat has nothing to do with what your brain learns. Student progress will be limited and few problems will be solved should we continue to treat all learning for all children the same. Many children need more time and many need less time to learn. When will we decide to switch to a knowledge based outcome that is not tied into a specific time-frame? We are educating our children in a system created in a different time and for a different purpose yet we now believe we are becoming 21st century educators…REALLY??? We need to teach our children how to access information in order to solve problems. How many of our students drop out because they are bored or just plain not interested in this or that subject matter? If a student can master a curriculum or skill-set in 9 weeks instead of 18 weeks why do we not allow that? Does it truly take all students four years to complete 22 high school credits? On the other hand it can take a student four and a half years to do so; however, then he/she does not count towards a cohort group which the penalizes the school. How ludicrous! How and why do we as educators allow non-educators (politicians) to dictate this type of policy to us? When will we take a stand and simply focus on the individual child and base his/her success on acquiring knowledge even if it takes a little more time. I believe if the ’system’ was changed many educators would have less of a problem issuing any grades, including I’s

]]> By: Ann http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-278 Ann Fri, 08 May 2009 14:58:31 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-278 No matter how hard we strive to do well in school, sometimes life gets in the way... When I was working on my second masters degree, my brother died very suddenly. I had a major project due the following month that was worth about 60% of my grade. I had a solid "A" up to that point, and had no intention of doing poorly on that project. However, everything changed with the death of my brother, and other concerns took priority. The professor was gracious enough to give me an incomplete instead of a failing grade, and granted an extension. The extra month made all the difference. The "Incomplete" made it possible for me to finish and submit the project, learn the intended content for that course, and keep my "A" in the class. Without the power of that "I," it is certain that I would have failed the class and put the completion of my degree in jeopardy. No matter how hard we strive to do well in school, sometimes life gets in the way… When I was working on my second masters degree, my brother died very suddenly. I had a major project due the following month that was worth about 60% of my grade. I had a solid “A” up to that point, and had no intention of doing poorly on that project. However, everything changed with the death of my brother, and other concerns took priority. The professor was gracious enough to give me an incomplete instead of a failing grade, and granted an extension. The extra month made all the difference. The “Incomplete” made it possible for me to finish and submit the project, learn the intended content for that course, and keep my “A” in the class. Without the power of that “I,” it is certain that I would have failed the class and put the completion of my degree in jeopardy.

]]> By: JLS http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-277 JLS Fri, 08 May 2009 11:06:06 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-277 I am all for the Power of I - but I don't feel like I should put in grades where students haven't even tried to submit work. I would have allowed the student to have the test back - it doesn't make sense to me why he couldn't have it back, unless he looked at his textbook after turning in the test and realized that he'd missed some questions. I don't usually put an I into the grade book - I think it's better for parents to see the "real" current grade and know the implications of where the child is currently headed - also, it allows for some "fire" under the student to get in some owed work. I know that it's nearly impossible to get out from under zeros, but I also give lots of opportunities to get in grades - I'll pretty much accept them at any time. I don't have a problem with doing that and don't really see why anyone should - but I respect the fact that some teachers do - and those teachers are always CLEAR with students regarding how late they'll accept work. I am also in favor of what one of our Math 8 teachers does - she has students retake the test until they can demonstrate mastery. The kids' grades obviously come up, and the kid KNOWS that he/she can do the work; even if it takes a couple of times to do so. JLS I am all for the Power of I – but I don’t feel like I should put in grades where students haven’t even tried to submit work. I would have allowed the student to have the test back – it doesn’t make sense to me why he couldn’t have it back, unless he looked at his textbook after turning in the test and realized that he’d missed some questions.

I don’t usually put an I into the grade book – I think it’s better for parents to see the “real” current grade and know the implications of where the child is currently headed – also, it allows for some “fire” under the student to get in some owed work.

I know that it’s nearly impossible to get out from under zeros, but I also give lots of opportunities to get in grades – I’ll pretty much accept them at any time. I don’t have a problem with doing that and don’t really see why anyone should – but I respect the fact that some teachers do – and those teachers are always CLEAR with students regarding how late they’ll accept work.

I am also in favor of what one of our Math 8 teachers does – she has students retake the test until they can demonstrate mastery. The kids’ grades obviously come up, and the kid KNOWS that he/she can do the work; even if it takes a couple of times to do so.

JLS

]]> By: Andrea http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-276 Andrea Thu, 07 May 2009 18:42:08 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-276 I would like to quote a teacher I used to work with who was trying to explain to a parent exactly why her son was failing chemistry. "You can lead a horse to water. You can teach that horse the molecular structure of the water. You can point out the many uses for water. You can purify and chill the water. You can put the water in a gold-plated trough. None of this means you can make the horse drink the water." We have to ask ourselves as educators, what is it exactly that we want our students to learn? Do we want our students to learn that there are consequences to choices and actions? Do we want our students to learn that not choosing and not acting are, in fact, choices and actions? Do we want our students to learn that responsibility matters? Or would we prefer for our students to learn that the last minute is the only one that matters, deadlines can and must be moved, and that you always get your way if your tantrum is loud and long enough? I recently gave a test where the highest score was a 74%. I told my students (after returning the tests) that they could retake them. I have had 3 students take me up on that offer. The others have until tomorrow. I'm not saying that students never deserve a second chance, but I am saying that we must be aware of what we are really teaching them when there is always a second (third, fourth, fifth) chance. I would like to quote a teacher I used to work with who was trying to explain to a parent exactly why her son was failing chemistry. “You can lead a horse to water. You can teach that horse the molecular structure of the water. You can point out the many uses for water. You can purify and chill the water. You can put the water in a gold-plated trough. None of this means you can make the horse drink the water.” We have to ask ourselves as educators, what is it exactly that we want our students to learn? Do we want our students to learn that there are consequences to choices and actions? Do we want our students to learn that not choosing and not acting are, in fact, choices and actions? Do we want our students to learn that responsibility matters? Or would we prefer for our students to learn that the last minute is the only one that matters, deadlines can and must be moved, and that you always get your way if your tantrum is loud and long enough? I recently gave a test where the highest score was a 74%. I told my students (after returning the tests) that they could retake them. I have had 3 students take me up on that offer. The others have until tomorrow. I’m not saying that students never deserve a second chance, but I am saying that we must be aware of what we are really teaching them when there is always a second (third, fourth, fifth) chance.

]]> By: Mike http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-275 Mike Thu, 07 May 2009 15:51:07 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-275 There is no 'easy solution' or one size fits all in teaching and learning. This is the most difficult job in America. The "I" provides opportunity. Of course at that point it is up to the child to take advantage of the opportunity with the instructor's assistance. We have a 25 minute "INTERACT" period, 4 days per week when all our classes stop and students can go see any theacher they have for 'extra help'. We also have extra help sessions every Tues-Fri after school for 45 minutes. We advertise this to students and their parents and provide this opportunity for learning, make up work, etc because we understand that there are numerous reasons to do so ...The BEAUTIFUL thing is NOT ONE STUDENT AND NOT ONE PARENT (since we instituted this 4 years ago)EVER CLAIMS THAT WE DO NOT PROVIDE A TIME, A PLACE, OR A PERSON TO FACILITATE TEACHING AND LEARNING FOR THEIR CHILD TO BE SUCCESSFUL. ALSO, NO ONE ARGUES WITH A POOR GRADE. Everyone realizes this is a partnership and learning for some takes a little extra time and or effort. We do not have to worry about giving "I" too often because of this. WE PROVIDE A CHILD A CHOICE AND WE 'HONOR THAT CHOICE'. We document who comes to the daily help sessions and also who we invite to these sessions should they not voluteer to do so. Give it a try! There is no ‘easy solution’ or one size fits all in teaching and learning. This is the most difficult job in America. The “I” provides opportunity. Of course at that point it is up to the child to take advantage of the opportunity with the instructor’s assistance. We have a 25 minute “INTERACT” period, 4 days per week when all our classes stop and students can go see any theacher they have for ‘extra help’. We also have extra help sessions every Tues-Fri after school for 45 minutes. We advertise this to students and their parents and provide this opportunity for learning, make up work, etc because we understand that there are numerous reasons to do so …The BEAUTIFUL thing is NOT ONE STUDENT AND NOT ONE PARENT (since we instituted this 4 years ago)EVER CLAIMS THAT WE DO NOT PROVIDE A TIME, A PLACE, OR A PERSON TO FACILITATE TEACHING AND LEARNING FOR THEIR CHILD TO BE SUCCESSFUL. ALSO, NO ONE ARGUES WITH A POOR GRADE. Everyone realizes this is a partnership and learning for some takes a little extra time and or effort. We do not have to worry about giving “I” too often because of this. WE PROVIDE A CHILD A CHOICE AND WE ‘HONOR THAT CHOICE’. We document who comes to the daily help sessions and also who we invite to these sessions should they not voluteer to do so. Give it a try!

]]> By: LSH http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-274 LSH Thu, 07 May 2009 14:20:51 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-274 In the early days of my career I used F's and zeroes quite liberally. If work was done poorly or not at all, I felt I was justified in posting those grades. Later on, I began keeping an assignment log on a bulletin board. It was here that I noted each day's assignment(s) for my students who might have been absent. All a student had to do was look at the log and ask me for any worksheets or directions. Toward the end of my career I copied a colleague's idea and used an absentee notebook. Each day I would take roll for each class, write down the names of those who were absent, and summarize the lesson for the day. If worksheets or handouts were given, I'd even write the student's name on them and place them in the notebook. It was up to the student to check the notebook following his/her return to school and then touch base with me for a due date. At the end of the 9 weeks the notebook was purged and started all over again. This was a great tool when parents came in to discuss grades. I had evidence of the student's absence as well as all the work that had never been completed. The result: Diligent students followed through, but most did not. I put a lot of work into a system that didn't yield the results I had intended. What more would you have me do? As far as I was concerned, the students who failed to complete work did not deserve an "I". They made the choice not to care about the work they had missed, even after I made it as easy as possible to keep up. Sorry, but the "Power of I" doesn't fly with me. In the early days of my career I used F’s and zeroes quite liberally. If work was done poorly or not at all, I felt I was justified in posting those grades.

Later on, I began keeping an assignment log on a bulletin board. It was here that I noted each day’s assignment(s) for my students who might have been absent. All a student had to do was look at the log and ask me for any worksheets or directions.

Toward the end of my career I copied a colleague’s idea and used an absentee notebook. Each day I would take roll for each class, write down the names of those who were absent, and summarize the lesson for the day. If worksheets or handouts were given, I’d even write the student’s name on them and place them in the notebook. It was up to the student to check the notebook following his/her return to school and then touch base with me for a due date. At the end of the 9 weeks the notebook was purged and started all over again. This was a great tool when parents came in to discuss grades. I had evidence of the student’s absence as well as all the work that had never been completed.

The result: Diligent students followed through, but most did not. I put a lot of work into a system that didn’t yield the results I had intended. What more would you have me do? As far as I was concerned, the students who failed to complete work did not deserve an “I”. They made the choice not to care about the work they had missed, even after I made it as easy as possible to keep up.

Sorry, but the “Power of I” doesn’t fly with me.

]]> By: barbara oneill http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-273 barbara oneill Thu, 07 May 2009 13:59:08 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-273 While this strategy has greater relevance for secondary students, we face similar challenges at the elementary level. Unfortunately, we tend to use retention rather than intervention for those students whose delays or difficulties do not meet eligibility requirements for special services. In addition, at the primary level, we have many who lack the social maturity skills to meet grade level expectations for attention and focus. The "power of i" intervention, like all interventions, requires teacher management and focus on individual student data. Reteaching deprives successful/on-benchmark students of instructional time. A solution to the dilemma of equitable distribuion of instructional resources (i.e., time) is management of group size (i.e., reduced class sizes). This is ultimately a state-level budget issue. While this strategy has greater relevance for secondary students, we face similar challenges at the elementary level. Unfortunately, we tend to use retention rather than intervention for those students whose delays or difficulties do not meet eligibility requirements for special services. In addition, at the primary level, we have many who lack the social maturity skills to meet grade level expectations for attention and focus. The “power of i” intervention, like all interventions, requires teacher management and focus on individual student data. Reteaching deprives successful/on-benchmark students of instructional time. A solution to the dilemma of equitable distribuion of instructional resources (i.e., time) is management of group size (i.e., reduced class sizes). This is ultimately a state-level budget issue.

]]> By: Brenda http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-272 Brenda Thu, 07 May 2009 13:58:32 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-272 Several years ago, the staff at a middle school in which I was working decided that kids needed to have second chances to redo tests and make up assignments. The most immediate result of that policy was that students did little or no preparation or studying for tests. Nearly all failed their first attempts, because they waited to see what was on the test and just studied that material. The teachers were then obligated to create another version of each test. A large percentage of the students failed that test, too, knowing they could retest again. Teachers were also obligated to reteach the material to be tested. After just a few rounds of this, the teachers realized that no one was really benefitting. We were just teaching the kids to be procrastinators. Now, working in a high school, I see masses of kids who have no appreciation of deadlines. Unfortunately, many have missed out on scholarships or college opportunities because they assumed every deadline was only a suggestion. We work much harder than most of them do, reminding, prodding, urging them to finish things and submit them. We've done them no favors encouraging inattentiveness and dawdling. Several years ago, the staff at a middle school in which I was working decided that kids needed to have second chances to redo tests and make up assignments. The most immediate result of that policy was that students did little or no preparation or studying for tests. Nearly all failed their first attempts, because they waited to see what was on the test and just studied that material. The teachers were then obligated to create another version of each test. A large percentage of the students failed that test, too, knowing they could retest again. Teachers were also obligated to reteach the material to be tested. After just a few rounds of this, the teachers realized that no one was really benefitting. We were just teaching the kids to be procrastinators. Now, working in a high school, I see masses of kids who have no appreciation of deadlines. Unfortunately, many have missed out on scholarships or college opportunities because they assumed every deadline was only a suggestion. We work much harder than most of them do, reminding, prodding, urging them to finish things and submit them. We’ve done them no favors encouraging inattentiveness and dawdling.

]]> By: MM http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-271 MM Thu, 07 May 2009 13:25:48 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-271 Sorry for being a realist when it comes to my profession (which I love Mike). I have lived through all of what you listed before I was 18, some before I was 10. I am not saying we should not help our students achieve academically, socially, or even in the future professionally. You are correct in your statement that the majority of our students will become successful later in life. I too have students who have come back into my life to show what they have become (most teachers have). How did that occur if our system of accountability is so messed up? The "Power of I" is just one more way to water down responsibility. How about we grade on a 5 point scale with no 0 or even give every assignment at least a 50 (again with no 0). I know, lets only record grades aa a 64 (an F is an F right). Now I can pass a class by completing 1 assignment above that. Be real Sorry for being a realist when it comes to my profession (which I love Mike). I have lived through all of what you listed before I was 18, some before I was 10. I am not saying we should not help our students achieve academically, socially, or even in the future professionally. You are correct in your statement that the majority of our students will become successful later in life. I too have students who have come back into my life to show what they have become (most teachers have). How did that occur if our system of accountability is so messed up? The “Power of I” is just one more way to water down responsibility. How about we grade on a 5 point scale with no 0 or even give every assignment at least a 50 (again with no 0). I know, lets only record grades aa a 64 (an F is an F right). Now I can pass a class by completing 1 assignment above that. Be real

]]> By: jw http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/2009/05/07/students-get-another-chance-with-the-power-of-the-i/comment-page-1/#comment-270 jw Thu, 07 May 2009 13:21:50 +0000 http://21stcenturylearningandleading.edublogs.org/?p=27#comment-270 Does the power of "I" work? Since we are such great data collectors why are we not compiling the data on the "power" of "I"? I have my data and i would love to share. The first 9 weeks i gave out 21 I's. I got 16 students to make up the work they were missing. 2nd 9 weeks i had 11 I's, 4 students made up that work. The 3rd 9weeks i had 11 I's...not one student has made up that work. WHat happened to the students that didn't do the work?...nothing...The thing that bothers me is that the same students who received an i for the 2nd 9 weeks did not learn their lesson and are still following the same path...what exactly are they learning? The guidelines for I's need to be set in stone and followed by all. The following questions should be asked and decided opon by each school... 1. What constitutes an "I"? low grades? missing work? absence? 2. How many I's can you get a year? how many chances? 3. Should I's be given on interims? 4. Where should make up work be done? 5. Should we require that parents sign a contract informing them of the "I" and what their role should be? 6. should make up work be the actual missed work or an extension activity...most stuff missed is way over due and doing it does not really serve a purpose... 7. how are we grading? Why are these students failing, should a student be able to fail if they did not do any homework? not according to NNPS... 8. Should 8th graders have fewer chances than a 6th grader? Remember there is no power of "I" in high school. 8. What role do we want the "I " to have? Just sending an email to teachers telling the to not put D's or F's is not the way to get people on board... Teachers are not dumb, we are in the class with these students everyday, we know what students know and what they do not. How can we keep giving chances to pass the class when they haven't shown any motivation all year. For example I have 4 students that have not passed an SOL EVER! They finished last year with all D's and F's...They have received an I every marking period and I have busted my bust off during lunch and during my planning to ensure that their grade is up...who is working hard? Me or them? They still do not get it but they have completed enough work to pull their grade up to a 73.5...they feel safe and think they are fine, only to quickly dip back down into the D range and to start the process over again... The power of "I" could work but right now it is just tires spinning on wet concrete...nobody is happy about the I's the way they are...implement the I? Sure but we must have a set in stone process. Does the power of “I” work? Since we are such great data collectors why are we not compiling the data on the “power” of “I”? I have my data and i would love to share. The first 9 weeks i gave out 21 I’s. I got 16 students to make up the work they were missing. 2nd 9 weeks i had 11 I’s, 4 students made up that work. The 3rd 9weeks i had 11 I’s…not one student has made up that work. WHat happened to the students that didn’t do the work?…nothing…The thing that bothers me is that the same students who received an i for the 2nd 9 weeks did not learn their lesson and are still following the same path…what exactly are they learning? The guidelines for I’s need to be set in stone and followed by all. The following questions should be asked and decided opon by each school…
1. What constitutes an “I”? low grades? missing work? absence?
2. How many I’s can you get a year? how many chances?
3. Should I’s be given on interims?
4. Where should make up work be done?
5. Should we require that parents sign a contract informing them of the “I” and what their role should be?
6. should make up work be the actual missed work or an extension activity…most stuff missed is way over due and doing it does not really serve a purpose…
7. how are we grading? Why are these students failing, should a student be able to fail if they did not do any homework? not according to NNPS…
8. Should 8th graders have fewer chances than a 6th grader? Remember there is no power of “I” in high school.
8. What role do we want the “I ” to have?

Just sending an email to teachers telling the to not put D’s or F’s is not the way to get people on board…

Teachers are not dumb, we are in the class with these students everyday, we know what students know and what they do not. How can we keep giving chances to pass the class when they haven’t shown any motivation all year. For example I have 4 students that have not passed an SOL EVER! They finished last year with all D’s and F’s…They have received an I every marking period and I have busted my bust off during lunch and during my planning to ensure that their grade is up…who is working hard? Me or them? They still do not get it but they have completed enough work to pull their grade up to a 73.5…they feel safe and think they are fine, only to quickly dip back down into the D range and to start the process over again…

The power of “I” could work but right now it is just tires spinning on wet concrete…nobody is happy about the I’s the way they are…implement the I? Sure but we must have a set in stone process.

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